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For example, I said, can the same thing be at rest and in motion
at the same time in the same part?
Still, I said, let us have a more precise statement of terms, lest
we should hereafter fall out by the way. Imagine the case of a man who
is standing and also moving his hands and his head, and suppose a
person to say that one and the same person is in motion and at rest at
the same moment-to such a mode of speech we should object, and
should rather say that one part of him is in motion while another is
And suppose the objector to refine still further, and to draw the
nice distinction that not only parts of tops, but whole tops, when
they spin round with their pegs fixed on the spot, are at rest and
in motion at the same time (and he may say the same of anything
which revolves in the same spot), his objection would not be
admitted by us, because in such cases things are not at rest and in
motion in the same parts of themselves; we should rather say that they
have both an axis and a circumference, and that the axis stands still,
for there is no deviation from the perpendicular; and that the
circumference goes round. But if, while revolving, the axis inclines
either to the right or left, forwards or backwards, then in no point
of view can they be at rest.
That is the correct mode of describing them, he replied.
Then none of these objections will confuse us, or incline us to
believe that the same thing at the same time, in the same part or in
relation to the same thing, can act or be acted upon in contrary ways.
Certainly not, according to my way of thinking.
Yet, I said, that we may not be compelled to examine all such
objections, and prove at length that they are untrue, let us assume
their absurdity, and go forward on the understanding that hereafter,
if this assumption turn out to be untrue, all the consequences which
follow shall be withdrawn.
Yes, he said, that will be the best way.
Well, I said, would you not allow that assent and dissent, desire
and aversion, attraction and repulsion, are all of them opposites,
whether they are regarded as active or passive (for that makes no
difference in the fact of their opposition)?
Yes, he said, they are opposites.
Well, I said, and hunger and thirst, and the desires in general, and
again willing and wishing, --all these you would refer to the
classes already mentioned. You would say --would you not? --that the
soul of him who desires is seeking after the object of his desires; or
that he is drawing to himself the thing which he wishes to possess: or
again, when a person wants anything to be given him, his mind, longing
for the realisation of his desires, intimates his wish to have it by a
nod of assent, as if he had been asked a question?
And what would you say of unwillingness and dislike and the
absence of desire; should not these be referred to the opposite
class of repulsion and rejection?
Admitting this to be true of desire generally, let us suppose a
particular class of desires, and out of these we will select hunger
and thirst, as they are termed, which are the most obvious of them?
Let us take that class, he said.
The object of one is food, and of the other drink?
And here comes the point: is not thirst the desire which the soul
has of drink, and of drink only; not of drink qualified by anything
else; for example, warm or cold, or much or little, or, in a word,
drink of any particular sort: but if the thirst be accompanied by
heat, then the desire is of cold drink; or, if accompanied by cold,
then of warm drink; or, if the thirst be excessive, then the drink
which is desired will be excessive; or, if not great, the quantity
of drink will also be small: but thirst pure and simple will desire
drink pure and simple, which is the natural satisfaction of thirst, as
food is of hunger?
Yes, he said; the simple desire is, as you say, in every case of the
simple object, and the qualified desire of the qualified object.
But here a confusion may arise; and I should wish to guard against
an opponent starting up and saying that no man desires drink only, but
good drink, or food only, but good food; for good is the universal
object of desire, and thirst being a desire, will necessarily be
thirst after good drink; and the same is true of every other desire.
Yes, he replied, the opponent might have something to say.
Nevertheless I should still maintain, that of relatives some have
a quality attached to either term of the relation; others are simple
and have their correlatives simple.
I do not know what you mean.
Well, you know of course that the greater is relative to the less?
And the much greater to the much less?
And the sometime greater to the sometime less, and the greater
that is to be to the less that is to be?
Certainly, he said.
And so of more and less, and of other correlative terms, such as the
double and the half, or again, the heavier and the lighter, the
swifter and the slower; and of hot and cold, and of any other
relatives; --is not this true of all of them?
And does not the same principle hold in the sciences? The object
of science is knowledge (assuming that to be the true definition), but
the object of a particular science is a particular kind of
knowledge; I mean, for example, that the science of house-building
is a kind of knowledge which is defined and distinguished from other
kinds and is therefore termed architecture.
Because it has a particular quality which no other has?
And it has this particular quality because it has an object of a
particular kind; and this is true of the other arts and sciences?
Now, then, if I have made myself clear, you will understand my
original meaning in what I said about relatives. My meaning was,
that if one term of a relation is taken alone, the other is taken
alone; if one term is qualified, the other is also qualified. I do not
mean to say that relatives may not be disparate, or that the science
of health is healthy, or of disease necessarily diseased, or that
the sciences of good and evil are therefore good and evil; but only
that, when the term science is no longer used absolutely, but has a
qualified object which in this case is the nature of health and
disease, it becomes defined, and is hence called not merely science,
but the science of medicine.
I quite understand, and I think as you do.
Would you not say that thirst is one of these essentially relative
terms, having clearly a relation --
Yes, thirst is relative to drink.
And a certain kind of thirst is relative to a certain kind of drink;
but thirst taken alone is neither of much nor little, nor of good
nor bad, nor of any particular kind of drink, but of drink only?
Then the soul of the thirsty one, in so far as he is thirsty,
desires only drink; for this he yearns and tries to obtain it?
That is plain.
And if you suppose something which pulls a thirsty soul away from
drink, that must be different from the thirsty principle which draws
him like a beast to drink; for, as we were saying, the same thing
cannot at the same time with the same part of itself act in contrary
ways about the same.
No more than you can say that the hands of the archer push and
pull the bow at the same time, but what you say is that one hand
pushes and the other pulls.
Exactly so, he replied.
And might a man be thirsty, and yet unwilling to drink?
Yes, he said, it constantly happens.
And in such a case what is one to say? Would you not say that
there was something in the soul bidding a man to drink, and
something else forbidding him, which is other and stronger than the
principle which bids him?
I should say so.
And the forbidding principle is derived from reason, and that
which bids and attracts proceeds from passion and disease?
Then we may fairly assume that they are two, and that they differ
from one another; the one with which man reasons, we may call the
rational principle of the soul, the other, with which he loves and
hungers and thirsts and feels the flutterings of any other desire, may
be termed the irrational or appetitive, the ally of sundry pleasures
Yes, he said, we may fairly assume them to be different.
Then let us finally determine that there are two principles existing
in the soul. And what of passion, or spirit? Is it a third, or akin to
one of the preceding?
I should be inclined to say --akin to desire.
Well, I said, there is a story which I remember to have heard, and
in which I put faith. The story is, that Leontius, the son of Aglaion,
coming up one day from the Piraeus, under the north wall on the
outside, observed some dead bodies lying on the ground at the place of
execution. He felt a desire to see them, and also a dread and
abhorrence of them; for a time he struggled and covered his eyes,
but at length the desire got the better of him; and forcing them open,
he ran up to the dead bodies, saying, Look, ye wretches, take your
fill of the fair sight.
I have heard the story myself, he said.
The moral of the tale is, that anger at times goes to war with
desire, as though they were two distinct things.
Yes; that is the meaning, he said.
And are there not many other cases in which we observe that when a
man's desires violently prevail over his reason, he reviles himself,
and is angry at the violence within him, and that in this struggle,
which is like the struggle of factions in a State, his spirit is on
the side of his reason; --but for the passionate or spirited element
to take part with the desires when reason that she should not be
opposed, is a sort of thing which thing which I believe that you never
observed occurring in yourself, nor, as I should imagine, in any one
Suppose that a man thinks he has done a wrong to another, the nobler
he is the less able is he to feel indignant at any suffering, such
as hunger, or cold, or any other pain which the injured person may
inflict upon him --these he deems to be just, and, as I say, his anger
refuses to be excited by them.
True, he said.
But when he thinks that he is the sufferer of the wrong, then he
boils and chafes, and is on the side of what he believes to be
justice; and because he suffers hunger or cold or other pain he is
only the more determined to persevere and conquer. His noble spirit
will not be quelled until he either slays or is slain; or until he
hears the voice of the shepherd, that is, reason, bidding his dog bark
The illustration is perfect, he replied; and in our State, as we
were saying, the auxiliaries were to be dogs, and to hear the voice of
the rulers, who are their shepherds.
I perceive, I said, that you quite understand me; there is, however,
a further point which I wish you to consider.
You remember that passion or spirit appeared at first sight to be